TOWN OF
PLANNING COMMISSION
November 19,
2008
Approved December 17, 2008
Commission Members Present: Kay Ballard, George Bedard, Tim Clancy, Carrie Fenn, Fred
Haulenbeek, Jean Isham, Joe Iadanza, Will Patten, Johanna White.
Commission Members Absent: None.
Also Present: Alex
Weinhagen (Director of Planning and Zoning), Karen Cornish (Recording
Secretary), George and Carla Munson, Al Barber, David Lyman, John Lyman, Sally
and Chuck Reiss, Jeanne Wilson, Nancy Dunlap, Richard Jordan, Tobiah Schulman,
John Roos, Bonnie Morrissey, Charles Kogge, L. Duffy.
The meeting began at approximately 7:30 p.m.
Saputo
Site Discussion
Will Patten commended the proactive approach the town was taking in discussing the future of the Saputo site. Alex confirmed Saputo is leaving and they are taking their equipment including the silos. He said they plan to actively market the facility within several months, after those items have been removed. Alex said Saputo has been tending to the site, cleaning up the area damaged by the fire and also around the buildings. He said Jeanne Wilson, Hinesburg Town Administrator, has been designated as the primary point person dealing with potential economic development partners and that those conversations are only at a very preliminary stage. He said this evening’s meeting was to discuss ideas for the future of the site and buildings. He also confirmed that Vermont Gas is coming to Hinesburg, with a service roll-out planned for next year. He said he thought that would make the Saputo property more marketable.
Alex gave a brief description of the property:
- The site occupies 15 acres; 10 acres zoned in Industrial III and 5 acres zoned in the village. The main facilities are within the industrial portion. Only a small amount of parking and green space is sited within the village portion.
- Interior square footage totals about 90,000 sq. ft. The main building on the site is long and narrow; the bulk of the building was not damaged, only the 12,000 sq. foot area at the front.
-
Saputo used the biggest share of the town’s wastewater
facility capacity. They used
127, 500 gallons of water per day, out of total maximum facility capacity of 250,000
gallons per day (a little over half).
- Saputo had their own pre-treatment sewage facility on the premises.
Building interiors were discussed. Alex said he thought the buildings were configured with distinct areas for specific uses. Jeanne said she would try to schedule a tour with the local plant manager, Tom Hubeck and interested development partners. She said a key question raised has been whether the property should be re-zoned to reside in a single zone. Alex passed out a description of the Industrial III district regulations.
Jean Isham asked audience members for their input. Chuck Reiss asked if there was Phase 3 power at the location; Alex said yes. Chuck asked what would become of the lagoons on the property after Saputo left. Alex said he was not sure if their use was restricted to a dairy operation. Rocky Martin said they could be used for any number of uses. Chuck asked if Saputo had any restrictions on what type of business they would like to see take over the property. Alex said Saputo did not want a competitor (a large scale cheese operation) to occupy the site but have not relayed any other restrictions to the town. He thought the town would learn more as Saputo got ready to market the property.
Leonard Duffy said there were many types of cheese operations and thought Saputo might not object to the processing of one of those. He said there are also other operations that could make use of the same type of lagoons. He said he hoped the town does not rezone the property as a residential area, but instead encourage something that supported local agriculture as the Saputo facility had for many years.
Charles Kogge noted that Saputo is a privately held Canadian company and wondered if anyone knew what shape they were in financially. Jean Isham said she has heard no suggestions to turn the site into a residential area. Carrie Fenn said she has heard suggestions to rezone the property as a mixed use area, something closer to the existing village area. She suggested using some of it for some kind of food production, not necessarily dairy.
Jim Collins asked about Saputo’s tax contribution to the town. Alex said the total tax paid to the town, education taxes aside, was $29,800 annually, made up of two components: 1) the tax on the property valued at $2.5M., raising approx. $11,160 and 2) the tax on personal property and equipment valued at $4M, raising approx. $18,650. He said once the equipment was gone, the town would no longer realize that component of the tax revenue. He said they also pay $117,500 in water/wastewater fees each year.
Charles Kogge said the town had a unique opportunity to re-develop the site, adding he always thought a factory was ill-suited for the location. He predicted a lot of federal money would be made available shortly for green municipal projects and hoped Hinesburg could take advantage of them. Will urged parties to be creative but careful and wise. He suggested trying to secure a first right of refusal from Saputo in terms of a buyer for the property. Jeanne W. said we have expressed our interest in being involved in the process but ultimately it is their sale. Will said he thinks the town should buy the property. The idea was discussed, with some agreement that there needed to be a long-term plan and vision combined with proactive action.
The recent bond vote to upgrade the wastewater facility was clarified. Joe Iadanza asked what the implications of meeting our permits for discharge were if the town underutilized the capacity it once had with Saputo. Steve Button, the town Water and Wastewater Superintendent, said town lagoons do not rely on a certain capacity. The fact that Saputo is no longer discharging into the lagoons does not affect the main system. Joe asked whether processing more sewage in the town system that was NOT pre-treated was OK; Alex said yes, that the town lagoons will work properly without Saputo. Selectboard member Jon Trefry said there could be some net cost savings as some procedures are reduced by having Saputo not discharge anything (the use of pumps and blowers, and the amount of phosphorous content that needed alum treatment were given as examples of procedures no longer necessary). Alex said the only restriction on the system is the 250,000 volume cap.
Will said a key goal should be to replace the jobs lost at the factory and to replace the tax base. Chuck Reiss said the idea of the town buying the property was interesting; he thought it would be good to have an interim financing bill that allowed for some time to put together a use plan that we all liked. He presented an idea for the site, the construction of a grass pelletizing plant. He explained this as a new type of bio-fuel that can be used to heat homes. He said while there are no facilities yet like this in the nation, there are boilers designed to handle this type of fuel. He said it would be a cash crop for farmers in the area growing a native grass. He said research was being done at UVM and Cornell on such a facility, one that could create jobs, create local energy and support local agriculture all in one.
Tobiah Schulman said she thought Shelburne Farms was looking into establishing a similar but smaller-scale facility. She liked that the production facility would be town-owned and used by the town. She noted McNeil-type federal money for research on cellulosic ethanol, that there was a lot of research underway to make the production of that bio-fuel less expensive.
Alex said the Hinesburg Sustainability initiative had recently been given 10K to seek grants that would allow for research on these types of projects, for example, to explore the feasibility of a biomass facility using either forest products (woodchips) or agricultural products (grasses). Charles Kogge thought pursuing a biomass facility was a great idea and may qualify as a federal green infrastructure project.
Jon Trefry questioned how the town could afford to buy the property in the next 6 months noting it would need a town bond vote. He said rezoning could be done right now as a manageable first step taken in the short term, but that he was also reluctant to give up an industrial-zoned site that could attract a big manufacturer. He suggested putting more conditions on the industrial zone that is already there.
Alex said discussions around the creation of the District V (in which NRG now resides) were very specific. He said the new village growth plan calls for more zoning to the north of the village that is mixed light industrial and residential. He said new zoning can be worded any way you want, opening some doors and closing others. Kay Ballard said that in any industry there are certain issues that go along with the nature of the business, such as traffic and noise. She said we can rezone or assign new conditions but that the result was never going to be perfect.
Jean I. asked whether a smaller or
different type of dairy processing plant would even be feasible, given a
comment that stated there was a lack of milk in the Northeast. Will Patten said the ideal facility would support
a working landscape. Alex agreed, noting
that agriculture is changing dramatically in
Tim Clancy asked whether zoning would be changed before the property was sold. Alex said zoning could be changed at any time regardless of current property owners. He encouraged the Board to see any zoning change as a way to bolster Saputo’s ability to market the property. Carrie said further regulations such as restrictions on emissions could discourage certain manufacturers. Alex said any discussion of rezoning or the adding or subtracting of allowed uses should not just be about mitigating the possible impacts of a use, but deciding what uses we wanted.
Jon Trefry thought it would be wise to let Saputo know we are thinking about changing zoning. Alex said zoning should be consistent with the Town Plan. He said although the Town Plan is on a five year cycle, there are times when circumstances outside of that process require a different action. He described this as one of those times, when a town is willing to work with a certain entity to rezone to make a unique opportunity possible.
Joe Iadanza suggested a scenario in which multiple uses and business owners could share the property. He noted distinct differences in the buildings and within the area. He said it could provide diversity in the quality of village life and also in job security. Johanna said she felt the same way. She said she would like to see the property used by multiple businesses that made the whole area feel like something made more of the town fabric. Sally Reiss suggested a processing center for small-scale farmers, one that contained facilities for commercial food preparation on a small scale (a kitchen, an area for quick freezing produce to sell at Lantmans, a small grist mill). She said such an entity could be used by multiple groups. She also suggested a year-round farmers market or a food co-op that focused on local produce.
The
Alex wanted to give the group an idea of where most of the suggestions he had received were going. He said he pulled ideas from emails and also from the Front Porch Forum, with ideas falling into 4 basic categories:
1) Food ventures, utilizing the site as incubator space for processing local products
2) Smaller scale industrial ventures; Alex mentioned that some local business owners have recently inquired about space in industrial –zoned areas (and found a lack of them)
3) The area as a central village location; uses would replicate some of those mixed uses throughout the rest of the village (a mix of light industry with retail and residential)
4) The area as a municipal use; municipal and/or recreational uses in a portion of buildings have been suggested.
Alex said Zoning Administrator Peter Erb thought the site’s Route 116 frontage was nicely landscaped but under-utilized in terms of development potential. He suggested separating the property in two, with high-profile uses in the front and light industrial in the back.
The west side road was
discussed. (The Planning Commission has
discussed on numerous occasions the possibility of a road at the back (west) side
of the Saputo property, connecting
Ken Brown thought the site was most suitable to a dairy processor or brewery, both unlikely candidates for the property. He said he was concerned that a buyer would not be found quickly and that the older manufacturing facility might sit empty, paying zero to low taxes and not providing jobs. Al Barber, the Fire Chief, said the fact that the facility was compartmentalized would lend itself to incubator spaces handily. He said it was a sound building with high safety specifications. Charles asked if the Village Steering Committee had weighed in with any suggestions. Carla Munson said the group has discussed various ideas, all along the same lines as Alex mentioned. Alex said Rolf Kielman of the VSC had sent an email stating he favored a mixed-use approach. Rolf asked whether Lantmans would be interested in moving there, maybe into half the space. Will said he thought one of the town’s goals should be to replace 80 livable wage jobs, good paying jobs in high-tech, knowledge-based areas.
The town official map project was discussed. Johanna said any new development would have to adhere to the map once it was adopted. The Route 116 entrance to the property was discussed. Carrie said she did not like it; Charles agreed. Carrie said she liked the idea of mixed-use residential and commercial, keeping some of the green space at the front of the property. The fire incident was discussed in terms of how well the Fire Department was able to reach the area that burned. Al said it had not been a problem, adding they sealed off the area, pulled the boilers out and did test borings to look for contamination. Jean asked if any other type of (long-term) contamination on the site would be an issue. Al said it has been well-maintained over the years, noting buildings were all relatively new (late 1970’s to early 1980’s). Jeanne Wilson did not recommend eliminating the 116 entrance as it provided an alternate access to the area behind Town Hall. Kay thought any business in that location would want to keep the access.
Will said a high-risk or start-up green business would be looking for tax incentives, meaning the town would not benefit from the same kind of tax revenues (Saputo provided) right away. Charles Kogge thought the only type of business that could move into the unoccupied building(s) right away was a large grocery chain store. Alex said current zoning would not allow for that. Jean I. said if the town were to rezone the area for retail, they could restrict square footage.
Will suggested talking with Saputo to
let them know we would consider zoning changes, that we would assert an active
role in the development of the site and that we hoped to work with them in
collaboration. Chuck Reiss suggested the
town could still be a partner with an investment group even if we did not want
to buy the property. Fred asked Select
Board members present what the impact on the town budget would be if the
property remained vacant for a while. Jon
Trefry discussed details of the Grand List, noting it is expected to be flat
and the town budget to be level. He said
spending choices would affect the town budget more than municipal taxes. Jeanne said by looking at the loss of revenue
generated by Saputo’s equipment tax, the town will lose $18K in revenue. Ken Brown said if Saputo kept their water and
sewer allocation they would continue to pay user fees, just not as much as they
did. They may wish to retain those
rights to keep the property attractive but if they gave them up, they could be
assigned elsewhere. Jon thought they
would choose to keep some but not all of their current allocation. He said in order to keep the wastewater
budget solvent it probably meant the town would need to increase rates. Saputo’s business model and their recent
operations were discussed in terms of milk supply and capacity, as well as the viability
of the current
Tobiah Schulman asked about the likelihood of the town purchasing the property. Jon said it may be a matter of timing. Alex said it would be great to find a partner to buy it in the short term to hold it, not unlike what the Hinesburg Land Trust did - it purchased farmland, then resold it to farmers and private interests.
Ken Brown said the Planning Commission and the Select Board was made up of volunteer members, that the town did not have an economic development office or staff person to put something like that together. Chuck Reiss thought this was a business venture unlike the Land Trust deal. He thought the town may be able to better attract business capital for a for-profit business venture.
Jean Isham asked how the Planning Commission should proceed. Jeanne Wilson said a meeting with economic development partners would happen in early December; feedback from that meeting could be presented at the first Planning Commission meeting in January. Jean I. noted that first January meeting was planned to be a public forum to present the final village growth plan proposal. Meeting schedules were discussed and it was agreed something would be coordinated with Jeanne W.’s efforts.
The west side road was discussed again. Alex said the road is on the town official map, not perfectly placed but generally presented. Will said Ben and Jerry’s closed down facilities in a few towns and said he would see if they crafted any creative deals with the buyers of those facilities. The eco-park in Hardwick was discussed. Jean I. questioned whether businesses needed to have a local connection in order to get jumpstarted, or if just inventing a new space for green businesses would work.
George Bedard noted some issues with
the property that might impact the location of the west side highway. He said the town has certain rights to
install wells in the same area; those well sites are marked within protective
zones (the yellow circles) on the official map.
Alex said the town could opt to not drill in that area and drill instead
at the Lyman Meadows and
The next Planning Commission meeting is
scheduled for December 17th, 2008.
The meeting adjourned at approximately 9:30
p.m.
Respectfully Submitted:
Karen Cornish
Recording Secretary