Town of Hinesburg
Development Review Board Minutes
May 18, 2010
-Minutes Approved June 1, 2010-
Members Present: Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Dennis Place, Dick Jordan, Ted Bloomhardt, Greg Waples, Zoë Wainer
Members Absent: None
Also Present: Alex Weinhagen (Planning Director), Peter Erb (Zoning Administrator), Mary Seemann (Recording Secretary), David Zuckerman, Joshua Trombley, Eileen Carpenter, Paige Larson, Jim Collins, Nancy Wright, Steve Lidle
Tom McGlenn called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.
Minutes of May 4, 2010: After some corrections Zoë Wainer made a motion to accept the minutes as amended, Ted Bloomhardt seconded. A vote was taken. 7-0. - THE MOTION PASSED
Full Moon Farm: Conditional Use Farm Workers Housing
Tax Map #( 09-02-38.900): Board: Zoë Wainer, Dennis Place, Greg Waples, Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Dick Jordan, Ted Bloomhardt
David Zuckerman explained to the Board that his farm is a vegetable and animal farm, right now vegetables but said he plans on having animals over time once he is able to live on the property. David stated one difference between a vegetable farm and a dairy farm is that vegetables farms take a lot more workers to do the work and if you can offer housing to those workers it makes it a little bit more affordable to have as many workers as one would need. He said he needs to supply housing for 9-10 workers who are not local and need housing. He showed renderings of the proposed silos and gave a narrative on his idea to take the two cement based silos that are not being used and put them to use. He explained they will be building a connecting structure between the existing barns and the two existing silos; within that have the stair structure and landings with a doorway on the first floor into each silo. David said they are working to design and install a new septic system; one that will handle the number of workers along with his residence once it is built on the property.
Peter Erb said there were two things they needed to address today; the first being the wording. The original subdivision did not anticipate farm worker housing and says all residential must be in the building envelope. Peter told the Board they could change the wording and David would have to go through Farm Workers Housing, which is a Conditional Use and needs approval. Peter told the Board they would have to find that this project could be converted to a different use, which is one of the requirements for the Farm Workers Housing. David showed how it could be converted to another use or back to empty silos.
Greg W said it could be converted to agricultural use but that is not the way the regulations read.
Tom M said it looked like the walls were only as thick as the silo and asked David if that was indeed their thickness. He asked David if the walls had any insulation and were there any interior walls.
David said they would put interior walls in for pipes plus insulation and showed on his renderings where they would be placed.
Dick J asked if the silos were functional and David said technically they are but he has cut the electric to them, that all the wiring was old.
There was a discussion on the height of the silos and whether the Board should consider the application as new or existing structures. It was decided they were considered existing and the height was alright.
David said that with respect to Farm and Labor they have it under Conditional Use as a farm building.
Zoë W asked David to go over the parking. David stated he had to have six spaces because there are six rooms. He said at present there are two existing farm roads one which is higher and more troublesome in the spring. He is planning on getting rid of the road on the high side saying it will make that area available for parking. He said it was his understanding the Board did not want parking in front of the barn, right along the road but showed a grassy area in another location where people do park now.
Dick J asked David if in the design there was any special fire code that happens between the floors. David said there was. He has been talking to the State and Chittenden County Fire and because the plans have gone beyond three stories he has to put in a sprinkler system. He said he also has to put in fire rated doors and one hour floor separation; which is about 5/8” sheetrock for the ceilings. David was asking for a ladder on the outside of the silos but Chittenden County Fire said no.
Dick J asked if color-wise he intended to leave the silo as is. David said they will keep it red with white trim, as it is now.
Tom M made a motion to close the public hearing and direct staff to come up with Conditions of Approval for the Conditional Use, and also for revised wording on the subdivision approval. Ted B seconded the motion.
The Board had a discussion before taking a vote. Ted B said he felt this approval by itself stands, as long as it reflects the fact that this residential use was not contemplated and this subdivision falls under Farm Housing Conditional Use.
Zoë W asked Ted B if meant without actually amending it. Dick J asked if he was understanding correctly that the residence in the building envelope would not be a Conditional Use and if at any point this ceases to become a farm or ceases to be used as labor housing it is no longer considered a residence.
Peter E said the one reason to be careful with this is the Farm Workers Housing says it has to comply with all previous conditions of subdivision approvals. Alex W said there are plenty of conditions from previous approvals that might impact where David would want to put Farm Worker Housing. Ted B said they could amend that one condition to reflect the existing building as Farm Worker Housing. Ted asked if the Board would be voting on an amendment to the previous subdivision.
Tom M asked the Board if they were ready to vote. A vote was taken. 7-0. -
THE MOTION PASSED
Cliffside Condos Assoc.: Final Plat 2-lot subdivision Tax Map #(20-50-15.000): Board: Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Zoë Wainer, Greg Waples, Dennis Place, Dick Jordan, Ted Bloomhardt
Joshua Trombley, representing the residential side, and Eileen Carpenter, representing the commercial side came to the hearing.
Tom M asked Josh and Eileen if they could give a quick history of why they have to do this subdivision. Josh said mainly because of the amount of commercial space compared to residential space created some trouble as far as lenders were concerned. He said the lenders have tagged them as a high risk for lending because of the amount on the condo side. Josh said doing this split will get rid of the whole problem.
Dick asked if Josh and Eileen could go through the two Quit Claim Deeds and describe what is actually being Quit Claimed.
Josh said the line shown in the diagrams essentially cuts the parking lot from the commercial part and they have done an easement to allow access to the commercial. Eileen said she is actually loosing space in the parking area but she would have an easement to use it.
George M asked if this would let the condo lot have the capability of having more condos. Josh showed that the remaining land is mostly cliffs; they wouldn’t be building on it.
Dick J asked if on the commercial side the gravel lot would stay. Eileen said it would.
Peter E explained the wording regarding the parking between the two. Tom M asked if the maintenance for the lot would be shared, Josh said yes. Tom M asked if that was in their deeds and again Josh said yes.
Tom M asked if there were any questions from the public. There were none. Tom said the Board did have a Draft decision. Ted reiterated that they will not be building anything or changing anything, they are just cleaning the line to separate the commercial and residential.
Zoë W made a motion to close the public hearing and vote on approving the Draft as amended. Dennis seconded the motion. A vote was taken. 7-0 - THE MOTION PASSED
By The Stream: Conditional Use rebuild smaller on existing footprint
Tax Map #(15-20-46.000): Board: Zoë Wainer, Dennis Place, Greg Waples, Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Dick Jordan, Ted Bloomhardt
Nancy Wright and Steve Lidle presented before the Board and gave a narrative. They had purchased the property next to theirs on Wood Run, which the owner had abandoned in 2006, and want to take it down to rebuild a new smaller house on the existing footprint.
Nancy explained that the new house will fit in with the landscape and once completed it will be rented out. She said they intend to drill a well and the high-tech septic system that was put in in ‘06 is fully functioning; it has its inspections yearly and passes fine. They want to fit it into the landscape. Nancy said they want to make it an asset to the community and hopefully in about 25 years they can sell it and recoup some of their money.
Nancy said right now the building is non-complying and they intend to be much less non-complying if they are able to move forward. She said the new house will be much smaller and further away from the stream bed. She said they are going to have to raise the profile of the land in order to get away from the water table and have a firm foundation. They plan to landscape as natural a way as possible.
Tom M asked if there were any questions from the Board.
Zoë W asked Nancy if she could show her where the property is. Alex put up a slide showing the location and gave directions using landmarks to the property.
Steve said the new house would be a little over 1,000 square feet and Nancy said they would like to pivot the house to get passive solar gain.
Dennis P asked if it would have a full basement and Steve said no it will just be on a slab.
Peter E suggested the Board allow the lot coverage to remain as it is and the only reason for that is it gives them a little bit of latitude to extend the driveway into the house as needed. Later if they wanted to put a shed up in the corner they could without having to come back. He stated it is a preexisting non-complying lot coverage.
Nancy said the design sketches that they are looking at show 38’ x 26’ and this does not include any decks.
Steve said they have had companies out looking at solar panels to put on the roof and they have also looked at geothermal. Nancy said they are registered with Efficiency Vermont. She said once their plans are approved they will take them to Efficiency Vermont who will give Nancy and Steve their input. As the building progresses they will come out periodically to inspect and give suggestions.
Tom M asked when it was converted from a camp to a year round residence; Nancy said it was in ’07. Peter E said it had been lived in illegally for many years and when the owner wanted to sell it Peter told him he would have to convert it.
Dick J asked if the height they were looking at was 27’. Nancy said the height of the house will be approximately the same as the existing house but the ground will be just a wee bit taller in order for them to be able to put in a good foundation, they will be bringing in some fill.
Zoë W asked Nancy and Steve if they could address the concerns that Peter has about the fill and the effect it may have on other properties. Ted B asked Peter if his concern was keeping it away from the stream.
Peter talked about his concerns which included flooding. Zoë W asked Peter if his concern was having them fill right up to the stream and making the stream banks higher. Peter said yes. Peter went on to talk about the 25’ setback from the stream. This led to a discussion on landscaping, natural run of the stream, flooding and setbacks.
Tom M asked if there were any questions from the audience. There were none.
Tom M made a motion to close the public hearing and direct staff to draft Conditions of Approval. Ted B seconded the motion. A vote was taken. 7-0. - THE MOTION PASSED
Grant: Conditional Use – Expansion of non-complying structure.
Tax Map #(17-20-30.000): Board: Zoë Wainer, Dennis Place, Greg Waples, Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Dick Jordan, Ted Bloomhardt
Dick J recused himself as Casey is a co-worker.
Alex showed on the map (that was displayed for the previous application) where the Grant property was located.
Casey Grant gave a presentation and slide show of his existing house and the changes he would like approval for. He showed the addition of a second story to the existing house and a wrap around porch. He pointed out that the house on the east side is 15’ from the lake and there were no plans to change that. He showed slides of the neighboring houses to show that the additions would not be out of character for the neighborhood.
There was a discussion regarding all outside lighting. Alex said the condition states that all outside lighting would be downcast and shielded so it doesn’t shine into the neighbors windows or out to the road. Alex pointed out that there is a pretty long walkway to get from the parking area to the house. Casey showed the Board where the flood lights are located now.
Zoë W asked if the lights now were motion sensitive. Casey said they were. Ted B said there are a lot of ways to light areas without using flood lights. Casey said he did not plan to add any new lighting.
Alex asked the Board if they want him to write in the Conditions that all lighting on the structure shall be downcast, shielded, and motion sensor. The Board members said yes.
Ted B made a motion to approve with the amendments, Zoë W seconded. A vote was taken. - THE MOTION PASSED
Other Business: Lyman/Milot Tax Map #(08-01-06-320)
Dick J rejoined the Board.
The Board revisited some of the issues they had covered in previous meetings.
Alex W. asked if the Board was interested in having an independent engineer to oversee construction. He gave the name of Mike Weisel, saying he is who the Town typically uses and Mike was the engineer who the Selectboard hired to watch over Creekside construction, at the applicant’s expense. Alex asked if the Board is interested in having that kind of engineer, like Mike, give the final engineering plans the once over to see if there are any potential hiccups or issues.
Greg W said they did it for Creekside and this is a much more commercial development he couldn’t see why they wouldn’t.
Alex said they used him for Creekside to look at the Rec fields, to see if they made sense but because of the Army Corp changes they couldn’t do it. Mike was involved after Creekside was approved and during construction. This would be using him in a way similar to what the Board asked for in the Bissonette/Champlain Oil application, where the Board said they were a little leery about the traffic plan and wanted a traffic engineer that is working for the Town to take a look at it.
Greg W said the Board has left a lot of stuff open for Final and he feels it might be helpful to have another set of eyes and ears.
Zoë W raised the issue of “fill” saying that they previously had concerns about that and stormwater runoff. Dick J said there is going to be a lot of stormwater and electrical integration into this lot. Zoë W, Dick J, and Dennis P agreed with the independent engineer.
Tom M said besides going into Final, after this is potentially approved, what else did they have - a Conditional Use? Alex said yes and gave an explaination of what and why. He said there was also Conditional Use for the sign as the design they submitted was totally not compliant. Then there is the site plan itself.
Tom M asked if the applicant has to submit a list of Waivers, or are they even requesting any Waivers. Alex said they did and showed Order #4 where and what they were.
George M asked Alex about the discussion the Board had with the applicant about having a Town sign and asked if that should be in the Facts, Findings and Conditions. Alex said he would like to not have that in the decision. He would like to work with the applicant on a more informal basis. Alex said the Village Steering Committee was interested in putting up a “Welcome to Hinesburg” sign.
Zoë W had a couple of questions: she asked whether to make the LEEDS certification a Finding of Fact. Alex said they should put in that the applicant shall provide a checklist for the LEEDS cert. Her second question was regarding affordable housing; she felt the Board should make it a Finding of Fact that the applicant has made steps towards working with Housing Vermont or the Affordable Housing Committee. She suggested they make it a final Fact that the applicant has done this and say “we encourage the applicant to pursue this”. George M said maybe in #7 of the Finding of Facts in the Conclusion section. Dick J thought it should be added as it has been covered and discussed in the meetings.
There was discussion on the parking. Tom M said with angle parking there will be more density than with parallel parking. He named some of the Towns and Villages that have angle parking and said Hinesburg is the only one he can think of who doesn’t have it.
Zoë W asked for clarification on what the “Snow Removal” area was about, did it mean just extra long spaces? Alex explained the concern was for where to put the plowed snow. Dick J said the driver needs a place to push the snow and if you have the street then a sidewalk then green space there is no place to push it to be out of the way.
Ted B asked if the Board should advise the applicant that the Final Plat may take more than one meeting.
Zoë W asked about using pavers or the crosshatching for pedestrians and cement sidewalks. Alex said he would work with the applicant on this and not to add it to the Orders.
Zoë W asked if the Board was going to try to deal with the Final and all the other details in the same meeting. George M said it is going to take several meetings.
Tom M said there was a motion to approve as amended, George M seconded it. A vote was taken. Ted B. asked if this was with the four changes and Alex said yes. 7-0 - THE MOTION PASSED
Tom M made a motion to adjourn, Ted B seconded. A vote was teken. 7-0. - THE MOTION PASSED
The meeting adjourned at 9:25 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Mary Seemann
(Recording Secretary)