Town of Hinesburg
Development Review Board Minutes
July 20, 2010
-Minutes Approved August 3, 2010-
Members Present: Tom McGlenn, Dennis Place, Dick Jordan, Greg Waples, Zoë Wainer, Ted Bloomhardt, George Munson
Members Absent: None
Also Present: Peter Erb (Zoning Administrator), Mary Seemann (Recording Secretary), Diane Langevin, Tom Campbell, Elaine Hart, Michael Hart, George Bedard, Jamie Carroll
Tom M called the meeting to order at 7:32 p.m.
Minutes from June 15th: Tom M made a motion to accept as amended, Dick J seconded. A vote was taken. 7-0. - THE MOTION PASSED.
Bissonette/Champlain Oil – Jiffy Mart: Tax Map #( 16-20-56.500): Board: Zoë Wainer, Dick Jordan, Dennis Place, Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Ted Bloomhardt, Greg Waples
The applicant had asked to be continued to August 3rd. Tom M made the motion to approve the move, Greg W seconded. A vote was taken. 7-0. - THE MOTION PASSED.
Hart: Camp Conversion on Wood Run. Tax Map #(14-21-74.000):
Board: Dick Jordan, Dennis Place, Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Ted Bloomhardt, Greg Waples
Zoë Wainer recused herself from this application.
Tom M said looking at the staff reports this application centers around the bulkhead outside the footprint, the basement and propane tanks on the property.
George Bedard said he was able to revisit the site a couple of weeks ago and plotted the building against the control he had out there. He showed on a map the old camp footprint, he showed where the old west camp line had been located, and showed where the new camp line is located. He explained the bulkhead is a standard metal bilco cover that sticks up about a foot on the outmost part and about 2 ½ feet on the side of the house. It has the normal concrete stairs leading down into the partial basement. He pointed out the bulkhead was sticking out over the line by 3 ¼ feet at one corner and 3 feet at the other.
Ted B asked if they were here for an expansion of a non-complying structure. Greg W said technically he thought it was.
Greg W stated he was confused on how they got from where they were in 2009 to where the application is now. He stated he went back to the original application and he said it seemed to him the original submission was for the reconstruction of the camp on a slab. Now there is a partial basement with a bilco door going out. Greg said he was curious as to how the applicant, who the Board thought was building on a slab, thought he could build a partial basement without the Board’s approval and then put an encasement sticking out 7’ feet without out approval.
George B said his recollection of the process was that there was enough ledge sticking out that there was no real expectation of having a basement. When they excavated they tore down the camp and prepared to rebuild. At that time they discovered they were able to dig a space to put the utilities.
Greg W said he couldn’t imagine the Hart’s putting on a second or third story on their house without an approval so he couldn’t understand why they thought they could put a subterranean floor on without an approval.
Tom M said he thought they had talked about hopefully trying to get some kind of partial either crawl space or basement. Greg W said he went through the application and there was nothing that addressed that, although he said he did not read the minutes. Dennis P said he remembered that it was talked about and it was said that the overall height had to remain the same.
George M said he remembers it being discussed and his recollection is that it was all ledge and the Hart’s didn’t know if they could put in a basement without blasting. There had been some talk about them putting a basement in but they would have to go through the proper procedures for blasting.
Peter E said in his discussions with Travis he remembers the same as George. He said his recollection was that they couldn’t raise the level of the house beyond the limit they had in order to put in a basement and they couldn’t blast in order to put in a basement, but if they could find a hole in the rock somewhere they could put in a basement.
Dick J said that one of the questions that had been raised was whether that line should be measured from the new location or from the old location. He said it seemed to him that it is all part of the new construction so he assumed that it would be measured from the old location.
Greg W said in his mind if, when the original application was filed, there was contemplation that this alteration would take place it should be judged under the original standards, but if this is a new application based on change of circumstances that was not contemplated at the time of the original application, then it should be considered as an expansion of a non-complying structure as revised.
Tom M asked the Board if there were any more questions. As there were no new questions he opened the meeting up to the public.
Tom Campbell asked George B how far back from the neighbor’s line is the original footprint. George B said the north end of the camp was just a little over 8’ feet, the south end of the camp was 10’ feet.
Tom C said it is now gone beyond the allowance, even if the structure wasn’t there, it is 3.165 feet closer to the adjacent property which unfortunately is awfully close. He asked why this wasn’t included in the original application for the house.
Greg W said what he was hearing and that was the question he had that it was not expected they would be able to build a basement much less an access to the basement at the time they originally applied. The fact of the matter is the new house is several feet farther back from Diane’s house then it was, and yes he understands that the bilco door is closer but that doesn’t have a lot of impact and he asked Tom C what his purpose is-for the Hart’s to rip out the bilco door?
Tom C said no he just wanted to understand why it happened this way, without consulting for starters. Since the bulkhead has been added two large propane tanks have also been added. Diane has put a lot of money in that area of her yard making an area for entertaining and relaxation and the fact is that now everything is so close, was this right? He asked if they will be seeing other things, perhaps an a/c unit. He asked about the landscaping that was talked about going in to hide all of this from her view.
Tom M, Greg W, and Dennis P talked about there being an order for putting certain types of trees on the property to hide everything. Tom M asked Peter E if he knew what the order was.
Peter E said that the bulkhead was put on with full knowledge from Travis that it may have to be taken off. He chose and knew he would be in violation. Peter E said he explained everything to Mr. Hart who felt it was needed and was willing to see what alterations he can do to make it right. Peter E said Travis had called him a couple of weeks prior and was talking about the landscaping. Peter said this requires a couple of trees be put in front of the house. Peter said Travis felt there was enough landscaping there and didn’t see any need for them and asked if they could be moved and Peter E told him not without coming back to get an approval.
Ted B said he was inclined to say this was fine but they would have to come back with a landscaping plan. George B said his understanding was there were discussions going on about the landscaping. Greg W found Order #11, on the approval that spoke of landscaping. He read the Order to the Board which led to further discussion.
Jamie Carroll asked if the Board was considering a Variance. The Board said no.
Tom M made a motion to continue this application at the August 3rd meeting. Ted B seconded the motion. A vote was taken. 6-0. - THE MOTION PASSED.
Francis: Revision to Pre-Approved Building Envelope – Tax Map #(09-01-16.500): Board: Dick Jordan, Dennis Place, Tom McGlenn, George Munson, Ted Bloomhardt, Greg Waples, Zoë Wainer
Tom M offered the floor to Brett Francis. Bret F explained he was asking for expansion of his building envelope. He said he took out a lot of dead trees which opened up the area and thus opened up the possibility for a new placement for his driveway. He showed where he would move the barn he had approval for, which is mostly outside the pre-approved envelope.
Dick J said he was not at the original meeting and wondered why this possibility had not been considered at that time.
Peter E gave further information regarding the original approval which stated minor modifications could be made to the engineering plans if they met the intentions of the storm water requirements. Peter E said he checked with the abutters and they both gave the okay to move the driveway from where it was located on the approved plan, which is slightly to the east, which kept it out of the field.
Ted B made a motion to close the public hearing and have staff draft conditions of approval. Dennis P seconded the motion. A vote was taken. 7-0 - THE MOTION PASSED.
Other Business
Veilleux: Tax Map #(05-01-60.000): 6 month extension of the Sketch Plan Approval he received on March 16th for his property on Texas Hill Road. Tom M made the motion to grant the request and Zoë W seconded the motion. A vote was taken. THE MOTION PASSED.
Tom M made a motion to close the meeting, Zoë W seconded. A vote was taken. 7-0 - THE MOTION PASSED.
The meeting closed at 8:29 p.m.
Next scheduled meeting: August 3, 2010.
Respectfully submitted,
Mary Seemann
(Recording Secretary)